Douglas Alexander: 'I had people screaming abuse in my face'

I sat down with Douglas Alexander, newly elected MP for Lothian East, on Friday morning and interviewed him for an hour on a variety of topics, from his experiences on the campaign trail to life back in Parliament, and from the issues facing East Lothian to his recent vote to keep the highly controversial two-child benefits cap.

Among the topics discussed was the toxic environment many politicians are facing, which in recent days has seen new Leicester South MP Shockat Adam receive a potential death threat, while several politicians described facing regular abuse on the doorsteps.

When I asked Mr Alexander if he had faced similar problems, the Labour MP replied: “I’m afraid we did.”

“I think about democracy as not just a way of voting but a way of thinking,” he added. “That involves candidates, parties, campaigners recognising that democracy is really precious, but it’s also quite fragile.

READ MORE: AS IT HAPPENED: General Election 2024 - Labour wins Lothian East

“We had a couple of incidents where people were screaming in my face and the face of volunteers while it was being filmed.

“When I listened to [Labour MP] Jess Phillips talk about her experience during the campaign, she said what she had learnt was that these protests were to drive social media content, and that’s my sense as to those two interactions.

“I’ve got a thick skin. I wouldn’t wish anybody to be harassed or shouted at in the street whatever their views, but I was more concerned for the party volunteers and supporters who were with me, who were giving up their time to participate in a democratic system.

'Opponents, not enemies'

“I do think it is deeply worrying that good people might be dissuaded from standing for whatever political party they want as they think it’s just too toxic, the cost is too high.

“I think we’ve got a responsibility to each other and to the communities that we serve to conduct ourselves in an appropriate manner.

“Politics is always going to involve fierce arguments, it always should, but we can disagree without being disagreeable and we can recognise that in democratic politics we have opponents, we don’t have enemies.”

When I asked him if this problem had worsened since he had been away from politics after losing his seat in Paisley in 2015, he said that the levels of abuse received had increased during the independence referendum in 2014, but “what I didn’t realise was it was a leading indicator of the way politics was changing”.

He added: “The truth is, I worry about it a lot in the sense that I want our democracy to be open, welcoming, robust, but as reasonable as we can manage, and that requires a degree of restraint, but I think social media has really fundamentally altered how a lot of politics has been done.

“When I was seeking the selection here in East Lothian, I used to quite often ask local Labour Party members: ‘Where does politics happen in East Lothian?’ And quite often, people would say: ‘It’s on my phone.’

“In that sense, quite a lot of politics has moved online and people seem to have a willingness to be abusive and unpleasant online that they wouldn’t be if you met them.

“We need to have a sense of proportion. In the conversation, we have to take safety and security seriously. But it’s impossible to do the job of being a local Member of Parliament without being out and about in the community on a regular basis and being available to meet constituents.

“The overwhelming mass of people that I met in East Lothian over the last 18 months were not only courteous but welcoming and actually grateful to have the chance to talk about issues that they cared about.

“So it’s a minority, certainly nowhere near a majority, but it’s a pretty toxic minority.”

And he called for more co-operation and civility in politics, adding: “If I’ve learnt something over the years, there are lots of people I really disagree with politically who are great dads, or run the local football team, or run community kitchens and great organisations. All the wisdom in politics is not the monopoly of one political party and if you’re able to be in dialogue with your opponents, you quite often learn things.”

Meeting constituents

Mr Alexander described setting up his constituency office as “a work in progress” and said that three members of staff were being hired.

He said: “We’re looking at options for offices, but we’re making sure that when constituents are in touch, we’ve got an infrastructure.”

On which town the office might be in, Mr Alexander laughed as he said that when he had first moved to East Lothian he had received “a lot of advice from people in Dunbar, Haddington, Tranent, North Berwick, Musselburgh, Prestonpans about the merits of each of them” and it was a similar state of affairs for this too.

As to how often he expected to be in the county, Mr Alexander said he hoped that the pattern of the past week, when he returned from Parliament on Thursday evening and remained for the weekend, would be repeated on a regular basis.

But he hoped that week’s experience of returning to find his car had a flat battery would not be repeated, as he gave a special shout-out to Dalrymple Garage, North Berwick, for saving the day!

After previously meeting constituents informally, Mr Alexander held surgeries in Dunbar and Tranent last week and described issues raised so far as “a complete cross-section”, adding: “People are in touch in terms of national issues they’re concerned about, so we’ve talked about different aspects of the King’s Speech, but locally we’ve had a couple of people wanting help with passports, someone wanting a visit to the House of Commons, so it can range from very straightforward issues that you’re able to help with to issues that you may be concerned about but you don’t have direct control over.”

Life back in Parliament

I asked Mr Alexander how he was finding life back in Parliament after nine years away and what had changed. His response was there were “first of all, a lot of new MPs” as the numbers on the Labour benches had swelled to 411.

He recounted how Chief Whip Alan Campbell had repeated the words of his predecessor in May 1997 when he said: “The question I wanted to ask was how are you? The question I’m really asking is who are you?”

Sir Keir Starmer speaking in Parliament. Douglas Alexander said that he had spending time meeting the hundreds of new Labour MPs

He added that, while the building itself was very familiar to him, there had been big changes to security during his time away in light of the recent murders of two MPs.

Mr Alexander now finds himself back in the public limelight after nearly a decade out of politics and he said that the long process of campaigning in East Lothian – having been selected as the party’s candidate here as far back as February 2023 – had helped as a “fairly gentle reintroduction” ahead of taking on a ministerial role.

He said of being in the public eye once more: “It’s certainly different because, as one of my family observed, for most of the nine years I was away from politics we lived a life of glorious anonymity and in that sense I didn’t crave the public limelight.

“I recognised that with public responsibilities come public scrutiny, of course.

“As I’ve been out knocking on doors and talking to people, people are getting to know you. So what started in East Lothian with becoming more of a public figure again after a period of private life is just continuing in terms of a higher profile.

“I was driving here this morning to Haddington and was listening to the Today programme and it announced that the trade minister Douglas Alexander would be appearing on Any Questions? I then realised that was me!”

I questioned Mr Alexander on how representing East Lothian had differed from his previous time as an MP in Paisley and he highlighted how the county was “doing well as a community”.

He said: “What’s been striking to me over the last 18 months in East Lothian is we’ve got some very real challenges, whether that is access to GP surgeries, whether that’s making sure that there’s proper provision like primary schools for the significant number of new houses that are being built but, broadly, these challenges are real but they’re challenges of success.

“East Lothian is doing well as a community and as an economy, we benefit from a halo effect from the Edinburgh economy. We’ve got a fantastic coastline and landward area which is a growing source of interest for tourism.

“So there are real challenges but, on the other hand, East Lothian is a connected, strong local economy with a pretty strong, connected local community as well. So it’s been an absolute pleasure.”

Ministerial role

Just days after being elected, Mr Alexander was appointed Minister of State for Trade Policy and Economic Security in the Department for Business and Trade, based at Whitehall.

When I asked him what his role would entail, he said: “In terms of the main responsibilities, I’ll be responsible for developing a trade strategy for the new Government. That has to be aligned very closely with our industrial strategy.

“I’ve already in recent days met with several Cabinet members.”

And he said that he highlighted East Lothian’s energy potential, including the possibility of the continuing use of the site at Torness for nuclear, in a meeting with Michael Shanks, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero.

He said: “I sat down with him yesterday to talk about the potential for East Lothian in terms of both renewables and also new-build nuclear.

“I’ve been encouraged by the statement that Ed Miliband [Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero] has already made, not just about his openness to new-build nuclear but also to small modular reactors, because I’ve been, both as a candidate and now as a Member of Parliament, in touch with EDF Energy because we’ve got a world-class site in Torness. We’ve got a main station that is moving towards the end of its life providing base load capability.

“I’ve been really encouraged by the noises and the statements that we’ve heard from the Climate Ministry and that’s an example of where in Government you’re able to work collaboratively and effectively.”

He added that his work so far had shown him that “geography still matters in trade” and “we need to improve our relationship with Europe”.

He stressed that his work with businesses in East Lothian would help “shape and inform” his ministerial work, highlighting the success of county-based John Gilmour Butchers.

He said: “I had a visit to Gilmour Butchers and their facility in Macmerry just before the election and came away humbled and genuinely excited by the capacity of what was a family butchers that is now providing world-class products to Gleneagles, to Gleneagles Townhouse in Edinburgh, to most of the finest hotels and hospitality venues in Scotland.

“I want to see a business like Gilmour’s not only sell brilliant, local produce to the Scottish market but to be expanding across the UK and in time to be looking to expand internationally.”

The path to victory

Looking back at the election, Mr Alexander admitted he was surprised to win so handily – his majority of 13,265 is the most for an MP in East Lothian since 1997 – pointing to the difficult decade Scottish Labour had suffered since the independence referendum and saying they were “the last people who would be complacent”, but said that once the exit poll dropped at 10pm, he had been confident of victory.

READ MORE: Labour's Douglas Alexander wins Lothian East with huge majority

He pointed to a gruelling campaign schedule of many months of door-knocking for helping drive up his vote, saying: “I must have met more voters and electors in the 18 months [since being picked as candidate] than any of my opponents. And that’s important because it shaped and informed the way I was as a candidate, but it also makes a difference ultimately when people have met you and had the chance to talk to you.”

And he added that he thought people were “tired of living in a country where everything seems more expensive and nothing seems to work” as he praised Sir Keir Starmer and Anas Sarwar for the “extraordinary transformation” of Labour’s fortunes.

Douglas Alexander (front, third left) and Labour supporters, including politicians past and present, celebrate after a convincing win on election night to take the Lothian East seat

When I ask him what he’s most pleased about with Labour’s first few weeks in power, Mr Alexander highlights the New Deal for Working People which “will mean effectively an immediate pay rise for 200,000 of the poorer Scots”, and the progress with setting up GB Energy, as he adds: “I can assure readers of the East Lothian Courier that the work of change has begun.”

On GB Energy – a planned investment body and publicly owned energy generation company – he added that “given the importance to the East Lothian economy of renewables, the fact it will have a big focus on financing and supporting new developments in renewables has the potential to benefit East Lothian directly”.

Two-child cap

The interview took place just three days after a vote on the King’s Speech in Parliament saw the two-child benefits cap take centre stage, as seven Labour MPs defied the whip to vote for an SNP amendment that called for its abolition – they have now been suspended from the parliamentary party for six months as a result.

Mr Alexander voted with the vast majority of Labour MPs against abolishing the two-child cap – which prevents almost all parents from claiming Universal Credit or child tax credit for more than two children.

READ MORE: Lothian East MP defends voting against scrapping two-child benefit cap

When I pressed Mr Alexander on why he voted as he did, he replied: “I voted in favour of a King’s Speech that will directly tackle poverty, including child poverty, by helping make work pay. One of the biggest scandals of poverty is just how many people living in poverty are working a full working week and still living in poverty. So we need to address that directly within the New Deal for Working People.

“The SNP amendment condemned the Government for not having removed the two-child cap in 18 days. We were very clear with electors here in East Lothian and right across the country that, as an opposition party, you don’t get to choose the circumstances you inherit and, truthfully, the public finances are in a serious mess.

“I’m old enough to remember the equivalent argument after 1997, when Labour accepted Conservative spending plans for the first two years of that Parliament between 1997 and 1999 and that included certain cuts to lone parent benefits that was a source of real controversy in the same way that the two-child cap is at the moment. And after that controversy, we increased child benefit, we introduced child tax credits, we introduced Sure Start and we lifted half a million kids out of poverty.”

A number of poverty charities have campaigned for the two-child benefit cap to be scrapped, stating that doing so would lift thousands of children out of poverty. I questioned Mr Alexander on whether he agreed with them that the cap should go in the future and he answered: “Pretty much everybody in the Labour Party wants to see the cap scrapped. It is an issue of timing and expense. And those people who argue reasonably and rightly that the cap has had a big effect on child poverty need to recognise that the reason that it has a big effect is because it’s a lot of money.”

I pointed out to Mr Alexander that money had been found for other policies, such as the Prime Minister’s commitment of £3 billion a year to Ukraine to help it repel Russia’s invasion, while other ways of finding the money, such as a wealth tax, had also been mooted.

In his reply, he spoke of his strong support for Ukraine, while admitting that my broader point was “a fair one” as “once you’re in government, there is the capacity for switch spends within government”.

He suggested scrapping the cap could be something to be looked at in the future but added: “I understand the care and the time that Rachel [Reeves, Chancellor] is taking to review the overall level of expenditure and what’s happening department by department.”

On the suspension of his seven Labour colleagues, Mr Alexander would not say whether he agreed with the punishment, saying it was “a matter for the Chief Whip”, but added: “We were very explicit that we were not in a position to move immediately on the two-child cap. That was the manifesto on which those seven colleagues were elected and, while I respect their choice, those choices have consequences.”

I pointed out that the optics of being seen to suspend seven MPs for voting to try to tackle child poverty might not be the best for Labour, to which Mr Alexander replied: “It’s reasonable to expect Labour MPs who were elected 18 days previously, on a manifesto that is faithfully reflected in the King’s Speech, should vote for the King’s Speech.”

When I countered that previous Labour Prime Ministers, including Clement Attlee and Tony Blair, had not suspended their MPs for doing the same, and questioned whether doing so was sustainable for the leadership, Mr Alexander responded that “one of the real benefits of what happened on July 4 is we will arguably be the most politically stable country in the G7 for the next five years”, adding that “the Government can focus on the job in hand of delivering the manifesto”.

'No return to austerity'

When questioned on the war in Gaza, Mr Alexander said he wanted to see “a ceasefire, the hostages returned” and “ultimately a two-state solution” but he would not be drawn on whether Palestine should be recognised as a state immediately, insisting that it was “a matter for the Foreign Secretary” and he would “wait to see what he says”.

The interview took place ahead of the Chancellor’s speech to Parliament on Monday setting out the state of the public finances, but I pointed out to Mr Alexander that it had been widely stated ahead of the election that there was a £20 billion hole in the nation’s finances, questioning whether tax rises or cuts to services would be needed to fill it.

He said: “We need to get growth back into the economy, but we also need to find ways of stabilising the public finances and [the Chancellor] set out in the manifesto the measures that she anticipates taking.”

I asked Mr Alexander whether there would be a return to austerity under Labour and he replied: “No and I said repeatedly during the election campaign that Labour is the antidote to the austerity that we’ve experienced in recent years, and that’s because we will make different choices in government but also get the economy growing.”

Looking towards the future of his party, I highlighted to Mr Alexander that Labour’s landslide had been won on a vote share of less than 34 per cent – the lowest ever for any party winning a majority – and with fewer votes even than the heavy defeat of 2019, and asked him why he thought the party had lost so many of its core voters to the Greens and left-wing independents, and how they might win them back.

In his reply, he said: “I think the most difficult conversations I had on the topic locally, from Musselburgh to Dunbar, were not with people who told me that they were minded to vote for another political party but people who said: ‘I’m not going to vote for any of you, I don’t believe politics can make a difference and I’ve given up.’

“I really understand that sentiment because people feel beaten up and beaten down by their experience of politics in the last few years. But I genuinely believe, with a big working majority, with political stability for the next five years, what we will see is a Government that is substantive, not performative.”

Voting reform

I also asked whether the results of the election strengthened the case for the first past the post voting system to be scrapped in favour of more proportional representation as at Holyrood.

Mr Alexander said he had campaigned, unsuccessfully, alongside the late Charles Kennedy in favour of adopting the Alternative Vote system at the 2011 referendum, saying: “I do think there are ways that we can improve the way that we vote in this country.”

But he added: “For me, the link between a Member of Parliament and an individual constituency is precious.

“When you meet foreign leaders and foreign ministers who have no meaningful connection to an individual community, it persuades me that there’s still a lot to be said for being a representative of a particular community and, in my case, an immense sense of responsibility and privilege about being the East Lothian MP.”

As to whether his party might look at a fairer voting system, Mr Alexander said: “My sense is that the immediate constitutional priority in terms of changing how Westminster works will, thankfully, be the abolition of the hereditary peers in the House of Lords.

“The jeopardy of changing systems is it can absorb a lot of time and, as a party, we were pretty clear as to what our priorities were coming into this election: stabilise the economy, stabilise the public finances, get the economy growing, rebuild our public services.

“My sense is it will be those economic and public services issues that will be the main focus for the coming years.”

As we wrap up, I ask Mr Alexander one last question: if he had one wish for this Parliament, what would it be?

His response was: “That change is possible and that we can do better and be better than the way our country has been governed for the last 14 years.

“It’s a very heavy responsibility and it’s with a sense of humility, hard work and determination that we are setting out to prove that politics can help make the health service better, that politics can help improve standards in our local schools, that politics can help young people get an apprenticeship or get started and have a good career, politics can help tackle climate change and deliver good jobs in the future.

“So we’ve got our work cut out for us but I’m thrilled to be involved.”